Actually, I don't.  However it was brought to my attention, that TGFT seems to think that this is the case.  As far as I am concerned TGFT is a respectable guild with some solid players who participate in it.

I'm not really sure what gave TGFT that impression.  I hardly think it special that my killing or attempting to pirate TGFT members would qualify as hatred. 

Perhaps this is due to the issue one of your council members brought to my attention.  The player in question was active at the time the complaint was brought and while I was discussing it with your councilor, I was also discussing it with that CLM member.  Since that CLM member has been in good standing, and to my knowledge, no record of griefing new players, my decision was to take him at his word. 

You can be certain of two things.  1)  My loyalty and preference are with CLM.  2)  All accusations against CLM members are taken seriously and addressed.  That said, I will hold the word of my fellow CLM member higher than I will of most other individuals.  If a player that I have high esteem for brings a complaint, his or her word will have significant weight.  If I receive multiple similar complaints about a CLM member from credible sources, then that member will be dealt with.

It is a very fine line that we play.  And sometimes, willing or not, it gets crossed.  I will offer as an example that tonight one of my members was killed while botting in Itan by a semi-new Itani and hence the new player tanked his standing.  I have his guild chat saved describing the even as it took place, and am quite certain he is not at fault.  So, do not presume that I will take your word against my members.

If you have hard evidence that demonstrates your case, lets have it.  If you have additional complaints against my member, lets hear them.  Just don't presume that I will accept your word as golden, or agree that your complaint is valid.

Edit:  That said, I take newb attacks very seriously.  Please do not let this post put you off from making a legitimate complaint.  We need to encourage new players to explore the game and hopefully remain for the long term.   We may not agree, and you may not agree with my decision, but as I said above, all issues will be addressed with the CLM member in question.  Yes, we spend a lot of time in UIT, Itani and even Serco space.  My position is that new native players should be left alone or mildly teased.  Anyone else is fair game.

Cheers,
Uncle Ret

Since I was the councilor talking to you, I wanted to clarify something to make sure it was understood.   TGFT has no complaints about killing of new players in Grey Space especially when they have been warned not to go there as was the case of the newb we were discussing.  But when that same newb gets killed in a Dau Capitol Station Sector right after the justified killings it was not in be best interests of the game.  That was the reason for the elevation of some CLM members to KOS.  Perhaps we could cool down this situation by asking that before attacking anyone in UIT space that at least some effort is made to insure that newbies are given more of a chance to respond before being killed or that only significant damage be done to a newb.  Of course, if the newb were to fire first then by all means a good lesson needs to be taught to them.

Regarding the newb who was killed, I have since that situation worked more with the individual and he now definitely understands the role and purpose of Pirates.

I think I speak for the guild in saying we do respect the role of CLM and other pirate guilds.  But we cannot defend the killing of newb players in UIT.  And of course that does not mean that the more advanced players in the guild are not going to actually fight pirates at all times since we are basically an anti-pirate guild. 

I hope this might clarify the matter some for the members of CLM.

I never understood why all pirates aren't [TGFT] KOS. They are pirates. It's their job to kill you. Why wouldn't they all be automatically KOS?

To clarify some more for everyone, ALL pirates are KOS to TGFT as stated above in a round about way.  In some situations even those who are KOS get an elevated KOS when they attack a newb player, mainly in the interests of the game.  That would mean the ELEVATED KOS would be deliberately sought out and killed quite a few times to teach them a lesson to not kill newb players in what should be a protected zone for them.

Strat - we aren't VPR and not all our members are comfortable with pvp. Therefore we do not mandate that all pierats must be killed on sight. Rather, our KOS list serves first as a warning to all our members about which guilds should be treated with caution, (I think it says something like "kill, run or be boomed"). Secondly, unguilded pierats (e.g. Azumi), members of otherwise non-pierat guilds (e.g. peytros and formerly Death of Rats from Sky), and particularly nasty members of already marked pierat guilds are listed by name.

As a general rule of thumb, even we who go looking for trouble do not interrupt fights, gank or even attack non-consensually just because someone carries a TGFT KOS guild tag. However, those in listed guilds that reach the prominence of being mentioned on the individual list too have reached the lofty heights of "Accidents Happen" status, and can expect no quarter.

ELEVATED KOS hhmmm?
What's the difference with KOS? Gank Swarming/Lmining on sight?

Well Gray belongs to and us so unmonitored nation space. We may or we may not come after player crossing those areas. That's our choice and privilege.
And we'll pay for it with good blood. :]

For my RP i have tend to limit myself (and i am sure i have the lowest pk kills ratio of all vo bastids)

Pwn* noob crossing gray: they will get killed only one time for the day (my day) unless they seek revenge (hey that the purpose of vendetta so they should tend to it or get someone to do it).

Smile noob crossing gray : unlimited till they got killed, just to give em some adrenaline shot and keep em sharp, on how to escape nastids (hey i made a new word from nasty and bastid) Most of the time i dont even shoot @ the target

Pwn* pirate: yes i do that too. Hey when you're hungry even rat meat is good food : )

Pwn*  vpr: usually i feel i have to attack em, or they will get angry @ me or badly disappointed especially strat that is such emotive when not given proper attention. I may flee if i am alone and see a bunch of em in a sector (i dont see why i should give the griefers/gankers an easy pk).

Pwn* tgft: well flying a moth in gray is provocation...other ship configuration: well depends if i like the pilot or not

Paying me something to avoid fight: well bad idea, i dont beg for money i m always asking for fresh meat: so kill or run when hailed (kill me is easy and better cos chasing is boring)
hailing: i always hail before attacking, so if we r in the same sector and ye dont get a hail from me, ye'r probably safe enuf (and cos i luv my hail msg)

Attacking me with no hail: that's yer right, but just dont claim after that yer a nice honorable fellow : p

Ganking me : you must really suck @ pvp to need help to pwn me : p

B8: i mostly gave regular consensual pvp in this sector (unless if ye get me pissed off b4 or if someone poured alcohol in my pot) , so if you decide to interrupt my fight please be aware that my target may gank you (trying to rob someone's kill is REALLY nasty)

Renting me: i offer two services
Option A) love bouquet delivery: Pm me in game
Specify the target (can be a lady or a laddy, i will not judge your preferences) that will got a nice fresh flower cargo dump (variety of the flowers to be discussed and msg to be delivered)
price around 50k
payment condition after job is done: if yer cheap, the target will be informed : )

Option B) Funeral service
price 1M with eulogy
price 10M for anonymous kill
payment condition: 10% @ order, complement when job done, of course you have to join my group for confirmation
the target is offered a visit from the flarist and a card is pm after death
limited to one kill / week

*pwn (try @ least, i rarely succeed)

PS damn i am still yellow

Cheers

1st prize in lethal flower contest

Fair comments from both retractile and WG. Balance is as ever important in VO, and making all pirates automatically KOS would tend to imbalance the mix of piracy and pvp. For instance , a known pirate such as Retractile is fighting another player ( perhaps even another pirate ) in B8. Clearly gratuitously attacking Retractile would imbalance the pvp balance between those two players.

If however,  I meet Retractile in the bractus corridor I would assume that piracy was afoot, and would feel quite justified in having a pot shot.

With regard to killing new players I would hope that upcoming changes to the faction system would have severe consequences for the pirate in nation  space, and fewer consequences in grey space. My reading of VO is that the Devs wish to make space progressively more dangerous from capital systems to grey for new players , and progressively more dangerous from grey systems to capital systems for pirates.

Until that happens the reasonable attitude of pirates like Retractile is welcome.

I would like to say that I appreciate Ret's reasoned post here and think that this is a good use of our public board. I have read with interest and will continue to read posts from "enemies" of TGFT, to learn better how other types of player approach their RP, and their attitude toward the game, to our guild, and to other players of various stripes.

Clarification: I'm not saying I agree with Ret right down the line, rather that I think he is a player of note (or notoriety, at least) worth listening to when in a serious mood.

-- tsreknor

Ahh. I guess we just have different definitions of KOS. For Vipers, KOS means that you simply have the official permission to attack the character on sight and are encouraged to do so. It doesn't mean that we interupt fights in B8 and stuff like that...

Us carebears find we need a slightly more fluid definition...

...and I mentioned interrupting fights and stuff only because that's something that might occur for those degenerates on our "Accidents Happen" list ;-)

Heh...